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Is it possible to log night time in your logbook with passengers on board when you are don't have the three takeoffs and landings in the preceding 90 days at night?

More precisely, is it possible to fly as PIC with passengers between civil twilight and nighttime without complying with the recency of experience? Would that time be counted as night time in the logbook?

asked Apr 21 '10 at 21:04

wbeard52's gravatar image

wbeard52
206662545

edited Apr 23 '10 at 15:01


Interestingly enough, my CFI just covered this on my flight review. You can log it legally. According to FAR 61.57

(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and-

The "1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise" is key here. Now when it comes to logging night time you use the definition of night in FAR 1.1:

Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the American Air Almanac, converted to local time.

So you can lookup the evening twilights and be exact, but as a rule of thumb my CFI said to use 1/2 hour after sunset as a general rule. Which gives you about 1/2 hours to log night time while carrying pax. So if the recorded sunset for tonight is 8:00pm, you can log night time between 8:30pm-8:59pm if you're not current. But after 8:59pm the passengers HAVE to be out of the aircraft (preferably while the airplane is on the ground).

answered Apr 23 '10 at 14:40

Patrick%20Pohler's gravatar image

Patrick Pohler ♦♦
13371841117

This is exactly correct. I find it interesting. I don't know if I would ever log night time like this but it is legal.

(Apr 23 '10 at 14:54) wbeard52 wbeard52's gravatar image

Short answer: It's a bad idea; don't do it.

Long Answer: This gets technical. You can LOG the time, but it's an illegal flight. You can log the time as PIC because you're the sole manipulator of the controls [61.51 (e)(1)(i)], but you can't ACT as PIC [61.57(b)(1)]. Nothing in 61.51 says that you can't log an illegal flight.

I would hope common sense gets used here before you feel the need to open the FARs.

answered Apr 22 '10 at 16:33

Jim%20C's gravatar image

Jim C
1613

I agree. You can put whatever you want in the logbook but it may implicate you later on. This really wasn't the question though. Is it possible to fly between civil twilight and darkness w/o recency of experience?

(Apr 22 '10 at 23:45) wbeard52 wbeard52's gravatar image

I read the law differently. I think the original premise is correct and could be successfully argued before an ALJ. 61.57 is specific in that is states both the restriction to carrying passengers AND the recency requirements are both 1 hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise. No vagueness there. I'd love to see the legal cite for your conclusion that the flight itself is illegal. A pilot can legally LOG night time 30 minutes after sunset (give or take, check the tables for the EXACT time) and if he has passengers on board the aircraft with daytime currency requirements met, he can continue the flight so long as he lands at 59 minutes after official sunset. That would be roughly .5 hours of night in my logbook, and absolutely NO violation of 61.57(b)(1). Is it smart planning? No maybe not, but we're not arguing smarts, we're arguing the law. They frequently are two different animals.

answered May 09 '10 at 00:52

Jeff%20Dale's gravatar image

Jeff Dale
45561116

The accepted answer was actually the second answer to this question. Jim C. had a slightly different question. I revised my question and added the second paragraph after reading his response. The answer Jim C. provided was correct if you are operating 1 hr after sunset to 1 hr before sunset.

(May 10 '10 at 01:42) wbeard52 wbeard52's gravatar image
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Asked: Apr 21 '10 at 21:04

Seen: 1,393 times

Last updated: May 09 '10 at 00:52

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